Your post and further comments come just in time, when there’s now a hot debate in Spain about “to cut or not to cut: that is the question”, but without regards to yin-yang. Of course, I will refer you in trying to balance.
However, I’ve got enriched by the underlying feeling of “-do” flowing from your comments, as I often wonder whether Westerners prefer to talk about rules, criteria, proportions and so no, but forget that most Oriental “arts” are to be developed (lived) within a sense of personal way. Thus, a person may start from cut-stones, and further walking and twisting forward and back uncut stones, and even so, this will be only one within miriads of possible ways to learn from contemplation of stones.
Contemplation of stones: this is the fullness and the emptyness and you are required to no-distraction to fully achieve. When you are in contemplation, you should not be disturbed about whether it is cut or uncut; whether you are pushed to think about it, the stone is not good enough for contemplation.
Thanks, Janet for your inspiration.
Jesus

When we are on tanseki, for every possible stone I find, Mas finds 5 others at least. Part of it is of course his experience. He knows the stones so well, and what the good quality material looks like uncleaned on the river bank. He knows how a well-shaped stone appears when just lying there. So he looks at lots of likely stones, and doesn’t look at ones that are unlikely. I sometimes do kind of the opposite (I have a tendency to let my eye get attracted by flashy color - which is often poor, crumbly material and the color itself will end up bothering). My eye and experience is improving though with every stone (good or bad) that I pick up and look at.

Like you - I often look for something - sometimes smaller stones with flattish bottoms. Sometimes stones for cutting (more prevalent). When I was just beginning years ago I was always looking for doha (easy to find mediocre ones) . But - I’ve been learning not to. I have been learning to do like Mas and just open my mind and eyes and try to just look at each stone for what it is and what is there.

I don’t know if that makes sense? It’s hard to put into words. If you look *for* something, it makes it harder to find what is actually there. At least, that’s my experience.

Also I think for the artist, cut stone suiseki (good ones I mean) are a very good way to develop their artistic eye as well as developing their daiza-making craft and technique. One of our fellow SF Suiseki Kai members is a guy who has an amazing eye at the river. So far he has only made daiza for, and shown, his cut stones. He does very good work (he commonly gets one of the awards at the August exhibit), but has only been doing it for maybe 10 years and does not feel ready to tackle his natural stones. That time will come.

Cheers - Janet

Best Regards,
Mark

As far as modern machinery he’s described a couple of methods to me. Sand blasting equipment of course comes in both air and water versions. Then there are the stone carving tools used by people like gravestone makers.
He also described a gizmo where you have the stone over a box with sand and water and in some way (which I didn’t quite follow) the water and sand is poured over the stone like it was in a stream. I’d have to see a picture of this one…

As for stone carving - he thinks that probably the Chinese had many techniques which Japanese craftsmen used. One old method for jade carving for example used a string - with (harder?) jade bits embedded - like a saw. Since suiseki material is generally softer than jade something like this would work also I would think.

So I don’t have a total answer to your question…

I should note that apparently they have figured out that many of the famous old meiseki were in fact altered. (They’ve used xray crystallography I believe to figure this out). I gather that even stones from Rai Sanyō and the famous Floating Bridge of Dreams were apparently altered (though I guess that last in China since that’s where it came from).

To me there’s nothing inherently immoral about carving stone. My grandmother was a sculptor after all who did some of her work in stone! Most of us think that Michelangelo did some pretty good stuff . When it comes to suiseki there is a line somewhere, and when you cross it you’ve left suiseki and gone into a different aesthetic. But clearly there’s no universal rule handed down from on high as to exactly where that line is. For me personally, I want Nature to make the shape, texture, color, etc , but will allow a stone saw to cut it free from the larger rock (provided that is not then hidden). The fact that alterations are disguised though tells you something

(Oh yeah - when I use the term “suiseki” I am speaking about the Japanese art. I don’t know much about the aesthetics of the Chinese or other Asian natural stone traditions - but I have the general idea that they are more relaxed about the carving issue. Having just started some reading on the subject I could easily be mistaken…

Cheers!

Scott